Interview: Rolie Nikiwe

Rolie Nikiwe is the creator and creative director of Rhythm City, which means he is the Aaron Spelling of the show.  After my chat with Percy and Neil, I was still not sure about my views with regards to Rhythm City and he was going to be my last stop before making my final decision.  This was the first I was going to meet him in person, so I had no idea what to expect. He had just won a Best Drama SAFTA for A Place Called Home .

At first glance, he seemed like those guys you just want to go hang out with ko- Zoo Lake with cooler box, beer and have a boerewors braai.  So here is my chat with him:

PHATHU MAKWARELA (PM): Is it tough being a producer?

ROLIE NIKIWE( RN): Yes. I mean what is not tough.  It is hard, but not the hardest thing in the world.

PM: Let’s talk about Rhythm City

RN: Fine, let us talk about it.

PM: How did you get here, out of all the shows – you ended up here?

RN: (with an air of swagger). Well, I created the show. That is how I ended up here.

PM: Why did you create a show based in the world of music?

RN: The world of music, yeah man. I started this after doing Aplace Called Home – the first one and it was okay, not the best production but it was not bad. It was a production that was finding its ground, but what was amazing for me was when it was flighted, the ARS were great. Around that time, Curious Pictures phoned me and said E-TV is looking for a soapie, what do we do?  I said set in a township and it will spark because there seem to be an appetite for that.

PM: Because all the other soapies are set in posh suburbia and nice houses?

RN: Yes man, but when I said townships, I was referring to the culture, that sort of Hillbrow mentality.  The live free, hustling – that whole lifestyle. I said if you could create that environment that would be cool. There was not much in other soapies like that. I thought it would be great. But it was hard depicting township culture, because life in the township happens in the streets and you know in soapies, you can’t afford a street. We could not do corners.

PM: You mean you could not do chisa nyama?

RN: Yes, you could not do chisa nyama. So, you see how much substance you could lose, that forms a great part of the township and yet you want to do a soapie set in the township. It was a big challenge.  But then we came up with the alternative, Fats’s gym – it’s sort of exterior, where people hang out but as you know, that is a set in studio. Then we had Kilowatt, but the thing we liked about the set up was that it felt authentic. Black actors did not have to speak English because they are in a soap.  The other challenge was setting up a soap during a timeslot that had established soapies, so we had to hit big and make sure that he had an immediate impact.  The show had to be different from anything that was playing at that time.

What would make the show stand out to the viewer?  We had to make it clear cut, no confusion – that I what viewers go for, so we had to have the creed, colourful characters and the language.  The free styling of directing. We set off to create that world.  The other thing you also can’t run away from when creating a soapie is that inspirational world, that black people always look out for – I mean that is Generations’ claim to fame, but then we said we definetly need a business world. We sat down and said what would appeal to this world set in the township. The music business became a natural thing; it was a conscious decision to go that route.

PM: Was it also a conscious decision to create a show with melo-dramatic stories from day one?

RN: Not it was not like that, the show wasn’t like that from day one. When we started, most of us had worked on drama and we were trying to be dramatic, rather than melodramatic.  The first fifty episodes were quite dramatic; the broad storylines were about Suffocate building Killowatt, and the death of his best friend. It was all quite dramatic but not as successful as the current melodrama. What we learned was that there is a huge difference between a drama and a soap.

PM: Rhythm City has become a sort of a controversial show, its stories seem to push boundaries, and the show is very plot driven – like an action drama with little character emotion. The Mamokete affair, which had Jacob and Kop fighting for her, I felt that was out of character.  I think it was a great story, a woman caught between two brothers but that was not a Kop and Mamokete story.

RN: Hai dude, why do you say that?

PM: Because I ended up seeing Mamokete as a philandering whore. You have never in the history of the show painted her as a cheating wife and all of a sudden, she had bonked Jacob in the past.

RN: That is a good example. With that story, you can see the challenges of soap.  Truth be told is that we had never told a Kop and Mamokete story; they were always the foundation of the family. They were constant, the strict guys who guide their kids.  They were a base for a long time and we thought, its time these guys go on a journey as characters.  There is value in them as actors, but in the journey that they have to travel, you have to get characters into a strange place.  When you take a character into an unknown territory, it is challenging for the viewer because the characters becomes inconsistent with the character that they have come to learn.  But you must remember that people are dynamic, just like characters – people can present certain side for a long time and beyond that, but it’s a soap and characters can’t stay the same forever in a soap, wa ngi thola? You need to generate drama, and for that, characters cannot remain the same.

PM: So you were like, let us do a story where a Mamokete could have bonked her husband’s brother?

RN: No man, it was not like that. The thought around it was that, those two are a very sensitive couple. Each time we do audience test, people always ask why is he so soft, why doesn’t he ever stand up to her.  He is always told what to do by his wife .  You know he has this ever-dying love for her, we thought we should investigate why he loves her so much. We thought it would be fun to play with the idea that maybe she did not actually love him in the beginning, that she loved somebody else.  And explore the fact that somebody else let her down and Kop came and picked up the pieces, and she had to learn to love him. We thought that was a dramatic story, which is the kind of character driven story.

PM: Okay, fair enough.

RN: No, just to go back when you say the story was not treated well, you make a fair argument, maybe the story could have been better and I agree with you on that one.  But as a team I think we are aware and sensitive about who these characters are and what they need. Sometimes you just do not do the best job for it but I do not think we are plot driven.

PM: Are you character drive then?

RN: It’s a compromise of both.

PM: Now, I have to ask you this too – David Genaro. What more can you do with him in a couple of years?

RN: Well, let’s talk in a couple of years and I will tell you. (he laughs and it was like tjoo – he just put me in my place and the whole interview just went downhill).

PM: The actor will be on another soap by then.  (He laughs at my joke and I had to join him too)

RN: Dude, we do not know that, it’s a soap. So we don’t know what is going to be happening in the next couple of years.

PM: I think Ntsiki and Cherel made better villains than David, because they had an emotional weakness in them. David does not seem to have one.  I do not understand the things he does and what motivates him, so I can’t identify with him.

RN: But does he entertain you?

PM: No!

RN: Well he entertains a whole lot of our viewers; I think you are speaking as a writer and not a viewer.  We make our money from our audience, not from writers. (OUCH!!! – and then he laughed at me ) . Man, we pay the writers and get our money from our audience. When we are having these conversations, we need to be clear-cut, am I talking to you as an audience or a writer. We can always have these intellectual conversations but they do not necessarily mean anything. Can I make you a simple example? You have a show like the Lab, which to me is one of the most beautifully written, beautifully cast and directed show, right? Then you have Tshisa and any other terribly put together show, and yet it has four or five times the audience of the lab.  You as a writer you will like the Lab, but the viewers prefer Tshisa – u yangi thola?.

PM: Yes. ( what more can I say ..lol)

RN: It is a business; you have to go where the masses are.  So when we do these interviews, we must know that. I do not think Rhythm City is a compromise, I am saying do not sell bread to guys who are dieting. ( classic line I tell you)

PM: The show has done very well for the channel, are you proud of it or are there things you would like to change about it?

RN: (he leans back on his chair, King of the castle). Man, I am very proud of it. I am leaving towards the end of this year. I feel like I have run my course with the show,

PM: But how can you leave your baby?

RN: Yes dude, I have a career outside. I have other dreams and I think I have done all that I can here. I am proud of what the show has become. We had a debate in the beginning, some writer who had written on Scandal before was saying it’s going to take you about three years to get around 7 ARS. And I said, bullshit – it’s going to take us six months, but he was like; I wrote for Scandal and I said to him, this is not Scandal. We went on air, five to six months down the line we were sitting at 12 ARS and for me that was like a moment, maybe I do know the audience. Which is why I need to clear ukuthi ngi khuluma no bani while doing these interviews, uya ngi thola?( PS: that Scandal writer is NOT Percy)

PM: Okay, I get you man.

RN: There is something strange on South African television; the most popular shows are shunned upon by the creatives. Shows like Generations and Leon Schuster. You know what I mean?  Which means there is something wrong about us.  It means we are disconnected from what the audience want. It was a proud moment for me because it means that we know what people wanted to watch, if that was not the case, we would have had to reshape to make the show work, something which Scandal had to do.

PM: What kinds of stories you will never approve on Rhythm City?

RN: (he laughs) Look, I had a lot of those when I started because we were coming from a drama background.  We were serious about drama, but it was not working and the more melo-drama we started telling, the more people tuned into the show.  For me, any story can be told, just make sure there is dignity in it.

PM: Do you want a bigger budget to produce the show?

RN: Not really, you can have all the money in the world and still not be interesting to the audience.

PM: But a bigger production cut would not hurt.

RN: Yeah, it would be good for us. But, I mean when I think about product, money is not on top of my mind. I mean where does Rhythm City go from here? It goes where it belongs; it’s a soap, so you don’t have a five year plan. I think we have a rough two year plan every given moment, to say we are going to be here and this is how that story will pan out, but sometimes you have to change and shift as your viewers change. Isidingo started as a mining show and now they have a TV station.

PM: Is it exhausting, has it worn you out?

RN: Yeah, it is exhausting. I come from a background where I work on something for six months and then move on. It is very intense, you give your best and then it is over. With a soap, it’s an everyday thing – it doesn’t get over. The reality in soaps is that the first thought runs, no second-guessing.

PM: Where to from now?

RN: Movies,  that is why I am leaving. I want to do movies, like make my first movie this year.

PM: And here I thought you wanted to be the next Mfundi Vundla.

RN: No, I mean what does it mean to be the next Mfundi? A producer with …, I mean what does that mean? I want to be Leon Schuster, which is what I want. Make movies for the masses, make them work all the time and make enough money to not have to work all the time.

PM: Lucky you

RN: (he burst out laughing) naah, my wishes are lucky, so lets us just wait and see.

PM: So will you invite me to the premier of your movie?

RN: Yes, I will invite you.

PM: It was great talking to you.

RN: Cool man.

My final views on Rhythm City:

These series of interviews have humbled me as a person and as writer. I was able to tap into another world of dedicated creatives, who are passionate about what they do.  Rhythm City is created with love, these people put their soul and hearts out – for your entertainment and that is to be commended and celebrated. It is a great soapie for various reasons.  I think the show has found its place within our society and will play a major role in shaping E-TV as a channel. I have come to realize that the show does not appeal to me and there is nothing wrong with that, it’s a matter of preference and that has nothing to do with the quality of the show or the stories they tell, at the end of the day it’s about what the audience want, not what Phathu Makwarela wants.

There are millions of people who identify with it and love it, we live in a world where we see things differently and our choices vary. To all those who watch and enjoy the show, keep watching because I firmly believe that the best is yet to come. A BIG THANKS TO PERCY, NEIL and ROLIE for allowing me the opportunity do these interviews. Peace

By Phathu Makwarela ©

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